How can a personal God be infinite??????Please comment!!!!!!!

Sometime’s the devil’s in the details. Many times people read something over and over and never really understand what they’re reading. And understanding things also depends on a person’s intellectual and emotional depth. Two people can talk about the same thing and not have the same reaction to it. Philsophical truths will take on new meaning as one progresses on the path. People will just gloss over exteemly powerful pieces of information without batting an eyelash. This is because it just didn’t produce any emotional reaction from them, due to not being ready. It’s like telling a child that they can own a new idea. You’ll tell them and they’ll just walk away. Now you tell a businessman the same information and they may become exeedingly happy and jump for joy.

I do believe in a seperate God. By saying, “we” are “one” a person endorses their belief in seperation. They know they exist, and they believe God exists as well. This is seperation. Yoga means union, and union can only take place if seperation is real. Oneness has no meaning unless there is seperation.

These subjects are of emense importance, not only because I am personally a philosopher, but because a person’s philsophy can limit what one may experience. If one has no idea something exists, and doesn’t know how to find it, they won’t. A personal God keeps one focused and give one a focal point for their devotion. This is what is absent from such philosophies as Buddhism for example.

One thing which sister Michele believes, which I am EXTEEMLY oposed to, is an incorrect idea of merging, which in actuallity is annihilation. Many believe that when they achieve oneness, they will just merge into “God” and their individuality will be destroyed, in a kind of spiritual suicide, as I like to call it.

People seem to think that there is some silent, thoughtless unity, that is somehow the origen of everything. It is impersonal, and it has mysteriously given birth to all of life as we know it. And what we need to do is achieve oneness and end this gift of life that we’ve been given. Who the heck would race towards such a fate, but one who has been brainwashed by false philsophy which is incapable of standing up to any logic at all.

Imagine for God to design beings with the ability to reach amazing amounts of realization, who can rise in strength and understanding only to have it all go to nothing in the end. For anyone who is ready to embrace the truth, this small explanation alone will be enough to reform them.

If one loves God enough they will not rest until they know they are doing everything they can to reach Him. To die without God must be unacceptable to these people, a philsophy that feels good today but may be different tomarrow attitude will never do. They will not settle for a philsophy that makes them feel good. They will only rest when they they hear the real truth. A truth that can stand against any other “truth” and prevail, easily. This truth must be logical.

In my opinion, these impersonalists are atheists, and because of this limitation in their view of reality, they won’t reach God. All those who have become masters have done so by finding a guru and recieving discipleship. Even then it is good to investigate their teachings, because in the end, the authentic master will have the authentic philosophy. There is only one truth, and an endless amount of “truths.” The only tool we have that is universal is logic. It will appeal to those who are intelligent and unwilling to set aside their intellect when dealing with the most important topics. As it is written in the Qur’an, “I have given you a mind, and it is your responsiblity to use it.” It is also written, “that believers read all teachings and accept the good.”

The Buddha had teachers, and if you look at the Buddha’s words upon enlightenment, you will see that he came into contact with the Personality of God:

“Through many a birth I have wandered in samsara, seeking, but never finding the House-Builder. It is such sorrow to take birth again and again.

O House-Builder, Thou art revealed! Thou shalt not build a house for me again. All Thy rafters are broken. Thy ridge-pole is shattered. My mind has entered the unconditioned and reached the end of craving.”

-Dharmapada: 11:8-9

The Buddha’s search ended when he found God HimSelf. If enlightenment produced annihilation of the ego, no one would know, because those who reached it wouldn’t be alive to talk about it. WhatI believe is that after one reaches enlightenment and dies they take on a lightbody that is deathless. This light body will exist in heaven, or Nirvana. The name is unimportant. It is important to note that heaven is both a state of being and an actual dimension as well.

I embrace a personal God, but also recognize that He has an impersonal aspect as well. People tend to think that the impersonal aspect is the absolute aspect. This is untrue. Since God is absolute, both aspects of Him must be absolute. I acknowledge that most won’t understand what I’m teaching, but I do it because I love God and would like to help those who really desire to know about Him.

Ok, just so anyone reading in knows, I do usually think we merge into Oneness… and I’m not so sure that we keep an independence in that merge.I don’t claim to KNOW one way or the other though. And, I definitely don’t have a separate God entity… I have no idea where “He” went. I had him one day, and then, poof, he disappeared. And that sounds crazy, but it’s true.

**I have already explained the flaws in your merging idea, it’s untrue. The spirit learns eternally, there is no reason or need for it to die. Ever. The point of all this is growth. To grow to being a powerful being only to dissapear is an insult to evolution. God doesn’t do things that are pointless. You do have a seperate God. You’re speaking about Him right now. You can’t become one with nothing. In order for oneness to occur, there MUST be seperation. This is beginner’s logic. Your issue is that you don’t know what the word “seperation” means from a mystical perspective. And why is that? Because you haven’t been taught.

If you want to learn pay attention: “We have functionally, though not essentially, seperated from the whole.” You must understand the difference between functional seperation and essential seperation. In terms of essense, God is one, flowing on endlessly without any actual seperation between anything that exists. Now functionally, there is seperation. A table isn’t the same as a chair that is next to it, because they have different natures. The function of the essense determines what we are talking about. Seperation occurs where function differes. I’m not sure if you understand this?

The way God’s absolute aspect functions is far beyond how we function. Even after an experience of oneness with God, you remain an individual. You ARE seperate from God. You are seperate from me as well. I am here, and you are there. That is seperation. Now, we are essentially one, becuase God, who we are part of, is One. There is connection. There is oneness. God is like an exquisite work of art, and we are like fingerpaint. All paint and canvas but different design. We can experience God in meditation, but we are not Him, we are experiencing Him. Oneness has no meaning without parts to come together. Individuality has no meaning without universality. I fear you don’t understand this? This is such basic logic.

I’m not worried about losing myself in a merge, ‘cause I understand what being a cell in the body of God means. I have a friend who just leapt the line, and I think his words were “I am a puppet”. It’s a very hard space for ego… hard indeed. Until a person has melted ego nearly away, it’s impossible to grasp. We think we “are”, then we find out we are not.I guess the only thing I have to contribute here Daniel is that tons of folks get enlightened every day (especially right now), and they need not have anything for education and they come from every spirituality and lack there of. It is all grace, every single bit of it. Research and study and knowledge and books and gurus and swamis can give you religion. They can give you a basis. But they don’t do a danged thing for the real deal. It sucks! Or it doesn’t. It’s just “God”.

Tons of people don’t get enlightened every day. Someone who believes all kinds of nonsense about God isn’t enlightened. Experiencing a oneness trance isn’t enlightenment. There are different types of trance (samadhi) and these trances must be experienced repeatedly before they will lead to enlightenment. This is why you are confused, you don’t understand the goal itself, and will therefore, you won’t know how to approach God correctly. Enlightenment will reveal who God is, who you are, and the purpose of your existence. People meditating hoping to one day find out these things aren’t enlightened. You are still searching, and the others you have mentioned are searching as well. Unless these issues are solved, one will just die in their confusion.

So Joel Goldsmith describes it as “we are the tumbler and God is the glass that the tumbler is made of”.

**God is all of it. God wouldn’t even be God without us. We are manifestations of God. And God in His absolute state has a personal aspect. This aspect is a mystery to many mytics. They neglect God’s personality, and because of that they never reach enlightenment. Without acknowledgment of God HimSelf one will not find a focal point for devotion. If you read into Hinduism you will find that Brahman is said to have a personal aspect which they have named Ishvara. The sciptures have told us that we must be devotees to reach God. Any spiritual person that claims enlightenment but hasn’t realized the truth of God’s personality is not enlightened. Spirituality doesn’t work by everyone just doing what they want and making up all kinds of lies about God. It is about knowing the truth and following it.**

I don’t get why it matters so much though.

**It matters very much. Anyone who loves God with all their heart cannot settle for just any beliefs. They must see Him before they die, and they should never be happy with anything less than the truth. However, many people are fine with not seeing God. God doesn’t have to show HimSelf to everyone. That’s reserved for those who really need to and have put in the work. A person doesn’t have to become enlightened. They are free to reincarnate if they wish. The important thing is that one lives righteously.**

It’s that I recognize that those enlightened ones that I know…

**Ihighly doubt you do.**

that they actually lost their individual nature, the goal and purpose of self.

**That’s also wronge. Even enlightenment has levels and all of them still have some amount of selfishness. Do they eat, sleep, relax? I’m sure they do countless things for themselves. They still have their individual natures, but it is very possible that they have brainwashed themselves into thinking they have. This all goes back to my point about this position you have taken being just like fanatical Christians being “saved.”

Are we saying the same thing in different ways?

**certainly not.**

‘cause my ego pretty much got lost in the transition a year or so ago.

**Just like a Christian who thinks they are living without sin due their relationship with Christ. They feel on top of the world. Happy while living a lie is false happiness. Maybe you fall prey to “feel good” philosphies to easily?**

because everyone in any belief system gets “there” eventually… going with the flow just makes it easier.

**Quite unlikely. This is new age fluff, in my opinion.**

As to agreeing on the top part, creation obviously happened from existing materials. Something from nothing is totally illogical, and creation without intelligence is just as foolish. I believe everyone needs a point of focus for their devotion, and God is just that. Unfortunately from what I have read of your words you appear to be an atheist by your own declaration of, “I don’t believe in a separate God.” In order for creation to be planned, directed and controlled, a personal God is needed and it is that which you don’t embrace which I find to be a major point of contention. Atheism, due to my love for God, is something I find to be extreemly unfortunate, especially when “spiritual” insist on stating nonsense claims of a purely impersonal God, who is mindless and has created us in order for us to just annihilate ourselves in the end. I am very much against these lies and I know very well what the consequences are and it doesn’t cause me to smile to see people who seek the truth and are bombarded by falsehood.

We checked the dictionary, and I was a little too facinated with the idea of being an atheist myself… but alas, I am not.  I do not “deny the existence of God”.  Wow, quite to the contrary.  I actually deny the existence of anything in separation to God…  So really what I don’t believe in is “me”, the individual, “you” the individual, any of ya’all as individuals.  Hmm, there’s something for me to ponder awhile.
 
**Honestly, I see so many mistakes in your philosophy, you don’t seem to understand how to use logic in these matters and your beliefs therefore are incorrect. Separation is everywhere. You and I are seperate. Oneness doesn’t imply non-existence of individuality. On the contrary, oneness has ABSOLUTELY NO MEANING without seperate part thats can realize this unity that is present. This is something you must ponder. Atheism is non-belief in “a God,” which is to say, a “personal God.” People shouldn’t kid themselves into thinking that belief in some impersonal reality is God. God is more than that. If you are eating cheese, and another person is eating a cheese with bread, only the later is eating a cheese sandwich, and therefore I say you are an atheist, or possible an agnostic, because you are still searching and open, which is good. A person who denies their existence as an individual is quite delluded and under the influence of incorrect philosophy. The existence of you as an individual is the easiest thing in the world to verify and it shouldn’t be denied. A child who has no knowledge of any philsophy at all can grasp this. It isn’t complicated at all.** 
 
 I actually think everything is planned and controlled dynamically to the point of there being no battle to wage, no words to be typed… or rather, it was already predetermined 
 
**Nonsense. There is no point in individualization if there is no ability of the individual to control their destiny (free will). This is another, extreemly, simple truth that for some strang reason you haven’t grasped.**
 
  I’m a little ponderous of what happens to the “atheist me” in your world.  Do I burn in hell (which would be interesting since I don’t believe in one)? 
 
**I am unaware of any teaching that says an atheist goes to hell, and certainly don’t believe it for myself. Non belief, in revelations such as the Qur’an refers to way of thinking and lifestyle rather than anything intellectual. Hell is both a state of being and a place. A person can be “in hell” while on earth. The Qur’an actualy says that many are in hell but don’t know it. Non-belief in God isn’t something sinister that will cause one to go to hell. What i really means is that you won’t have any personal relationship with God. Is that a bad thing? I would say so.**
 
Do I reincarnate endlessly until I get the point and accept the One Truth that is as you present it?  What happens to me? 
 
**This is not the “one truth as I present it.” This is what has been revealed time and time again, but so often misundertood. This isn’t about me. It’s about finding God. If one doesn’t believe in God, submit to His authority, and approach God as He wishes to be approached, one will not find God. And what happens to one who dies without enlightenment? Reincarnation. The Buddha moved on from the gurus he found and surpassed them because he was searching for God HimSelf, not an impersonal God such as you, or those you think are enlightened, believe in. **
 
 
Unfortunately, deep beliefs are not alterable.
 
**Where do you get that nonsense, people change their beliefs in an instant under the right conditions. Other deep patterns of thought can take lifetimes to alter, but they can be controlled until fully neutralized.**
 
Understanding brings change.